Monday's news and links
Last week Pope benedict XVI quoted from one of his predecessors in discussing the violent and intolerant nature of the self-professed "religion of peace." How do Muslim around the world respond to show their displeasure with being characterized as violent?
a. Declare the Pope must die.
b. Burn the Pope in effigy.
c. Kill an elderly nun.
d. Declare that the Pope and the West were "doomed."
e. All of the above.
Knowing the nature of radical Islam the correct answer is E.
Is this what they mean by the term pro-choice:
A Maine couple upset that their 19-year-old daughter was pregnant tied her up, loaded her in their car and began driving to New York to force her to get an abortion, police said.
In this crazy world we need to know that there are some constants we can rely on. Here is one:
Willie Nelson and four others were issued misdemeanor citations for possession of narcotic mushrooms and marijuana after a traffic stop Monday morning on a Louisiana highway, state police said.
The people in Poland remember the brutal way of life under the Soviet Union. They are erecting a statue to honor the man who stood up to the "Evil Empire" and helped to free eastern Europe from the grip of communism.
posted by LargeBill at 4:31 PM
6 Comments:
"...the violent and intolerant nature of the self-professed 'religion of peace.'" Refering specifically to radical Islam, this is certainly true.
But please remember that same could be applied to much of Christianity's past. The buring of innocents as witches. The Spanish Inquisitions. The Catholic/Protestant wars. The killing of new world peoples to "spread the word of Christ." And popes throughout history have signed off on and approved all of these.
Now, I am not anti-Christianity. And I hate what some people have done to Islam. But in both cases, the extremist minority were the ones who twisted a "religion of peace" into something evil.
6:18 PM
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Religions are made up of and led by humans. All of us humans are highly capable of error. Understanding that I'd never attempt to defend any organization (religion, business, whatever) for past failings. However, here are a couple key difference between most of the worlds religions (Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism) and Islam. Whereas evil has been perpetrated in the name of every religion, Islam is only one whose scripture declares a requirement to convert under threat of the sword. Beyond that obvious difference is the fact that we are comparing the Catholic church of 500 years ago to the present day state of Islam. That may be the thing hurting that religion's people the most. They haven't advanced much socially in the last couple hundred years. Just one example is their treatment of women.
Secondly, the offenses you correctly attribute to the past popes and their flocks are centuries old and not looked on with pride.
7:32 PM
First of all, let us deal with the word jihad. Despite popular Western conception, the word does not mean a holy war against other faiths. Rather, the idea behind is that one must struggle against evil or impure thoughts or actions in your own life. I have debated this with a number of Muslims I have known over the years (some friends and some very decidedly not) and all of them have agreed on this. Our popular conception of jihad actually is actually the result of propaganda efforts during the crusades. Now that that is out of the way, onward.
"Islam is only one whose scripture declares a requirement to convert under threat of the sword."
Actually, the Qur`an reads "There is no compulsion in religion." (SAQ 2:256) This is a tenant which has been upheld by most mainstream Islamic theologians. See some Dr. Ernest Hahn's writings here here. When the text of the Qur`an is examined closely, we see that most of the references to violence against others is very limited in scope. You can only attack when you have been attacked first. (SAQ 2:190-193) If they have not attacked you first, or if they break off hostilities, a good Muslim will also cease to fight.
There are also a striking number of similarities between the Bible and the Qur`an when it comes to violence against non-believers. Steve Wells has a number of them listed here. I direct you to this only to point out that is not just Islamic scripture which can be read to call for violence. This being said, I not believe either religion to be evil, but rather as you said evil had been carried out by men in the name of their religion. I am simply trying to show that zealots on both sides got their ideas from their scriptures.
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"the offenses you correctly attribute to the past popes and their flocks are centuries old and not looked on with pride."
I am in no way suggesting that they are. But we should never forget the things which ashame us. Rather, we should remember so that we do not repeat them.
Thanks for listening and for allowing me to ramble so long. I always respect people who can agrue their ideas effectively! RH
9:17 PM
Rogue Historian, While what you say about Islam may be technically true it doesn't seem to be practiced that way. My question for any one who defends the Qur'an is have you read the book. Most people quote small snipets without having read the whole.
Last summer I read the Qur'an and was surprised how resentful and jealous Mohamed seems throughout most of the text, especially of the Jewish people. The backwardness of it was also striking. When you read the Bible you have the old testament (torah) followed by the Christian new testament. There is a definite progression from old to new. When you read the Qur'an the progress stops in favor of regression.
1:46 AM
Bob,
Sadly, I have not read the whole Qur`an, but I was sure to read the whole 2nd Surat before making my comments here (my former roommate, who was Muslim, left a copy behind when he left). I have also done some study of Islam in the course of my education. And yes, there are times it sounds very resentful and angry, but so do some sections of the Bible.
"When you read the Bible you have the old testament (torah) followed by the Christian new testament. There is a definite progression from old to new. When you read the Qur'an the progress stops in favor of regression."
One of the reasons for this was that Mohamed was trying to point out where the message of God (and I mean "God" in the generic here, not specifically the Jewish, Christian, or Islamic god) had been changed by men. The Qur`an is actually very clear that those who believe in the true message of God will be saved (See SAQ 2:62). Mohamad is resentful that men have changed the message of God for their purposes, and he is attempting to set the record straight, so to speak.
Also, the torah and the Bible have also had much longer to polish off some of the rough edges. The Qur`an will also, I believe, do this given sufficient time.
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"While what you say about Islam may be technically true it doesn't seem to be practiced that way."
Becareful not to confuse those who practice a religion and those who are shown in the media as practicing a religion. The vast majority of Muslims in the world are like the vast majority of Christians: peaceful. The problem is that the Muslims who usually make the news are the extremist.
Imagine, if you will, that you are a non-Christian who has had relatively little exposure to Christians. All of your information is based on what you see and hear on the news. What kind of perception would you have if all you heard were things about polygamists, the Church of the American Knights (a KKK group), the crusades, and the inquisitions? Isn't is entirely possible that you might believe that Christianity is a religion which preaches violence? But we know that this is not the case, althought people (like the American Knights) have used it justify their violence. The same thing has happened with Islam. What we hear in the news is all about those who have perverted the religion.
8:30 AM
Rogue Historian, Your correct not all adherents of any faith practice the faith doctrinally correct. Islam however has leaders who use the Qur'an to promote violence. While this isn't true of all their leaders There doesn't seem to be any wide spread denunciation of leaders like Bin Laden, Zawahiri, Khomeini. Can you imagine christian leadership giving a pass to the KKK or other groups using the bible to justify violence. Imagine the outcry if these many examples of Islamic militance were perpetrated by Christians there would likely be a new reformation with Catholicism and Protestancy falling by the wayside.
5:03 PM
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